Rachel Zepernick: [00:00:00] So again, you could, what’s special about Angi is we have a ton of demand. Um, so I think that differentiates us. We’re one of the largest marketplaces in this space. I think we had 22 million service requests last year. So tons of homeowner demand. So you could be a pro that’s just, again, looking for three to five, you know, custom leads per month.
Rachel Zepernick: Uh, and you could be the largest pro in the U. S. Uh, we work with some of the largest service providers in the U. S. Uh, serving, you know, thousands of leads per month. So, you can really fill your calendar with whatever demand you’re looking for.
Wyatt Smith: Welcome back to another episode of Untapped with UpSmith. Uh, Alex and I are thrilled to have Rachel [00:01:00] Zepernick with us today. Rachel is a great friend. Uh, she’s a leader, vice president, general manager, uh, at Angi doing really important work around the enterprise segment. Um, Angi, of course is, is helping to make sure that people can access home services, both in the consumer side and also supporting trades people.
Wyatt Smith: As those pros go and make a great career for themselves. So welcome, Rachel.
Rachel Zepernick: Thank you. I’m very excited to be on the
Rachel Zepernick: podcast.
Alex Hudgens: Hi,
Wyatt Smith: I’m most definitely, we do this, we do this podcast to be able to share perspectives with, with, uh, pros and trades people all over the country on ways to help grow their businesses and help those trades companies win.
Wyatt Smith: And so we’re really excited to have you aboard to learn from your experience and get a chance to share some of those insights with our listeners.
Alex Hudgens: I’m just excited because I’ve known Angie for my whole life. Like I’ve known Angie forever. I’m like, she’s a celebrity. We have a celebrity on the podcast today.
Alex Hudgens: Let’s go.
Rachel Zepernick: Whenever we [00:02:00] bring her, whenever we bring Angie Hicks to a trade show, all the pros are so excited to meet her. I mean, she’s been in the industry for, I think, almost 30 years. So, uh, definitely a familiar face.
Alex Hudgens: And we have a celebrity on the podcast today because you’re
Alex Hudgens: at Angi and you hang out with Angie.
Alex Hudgens: So I’m very excited. Rachel, we usually dive in with having people tell us. About their childhood. So let’s just have a really casual conversation real quick But we want to know like how did you get to where you are now? What was the path and you can go as far back as you’d like? Sure
Rachel Zepernick: I grew up in Kensington, Maryland, which is the burbs of D.
Rachel Zepernick: C. Um, so right outside of D. C., about 30, 40 minutes. Um, and my childhood I would describe as chaotic in like a really good way. Um, so I am one of four. Uh, so it was a very loud world, very tall, very active. There were like a hundred sports between the four of us. Um, just very full [00:03:00] calendar. Um, so that to me is calm.
Rachel Zepernick: So I thrive in chaos, I think. Um, and I think that’s sort of driven my career and my personality from there. Um, yeah, I’m always very busy. I like to fill my calendar. Um, in my work experience, I think I’ve always looked for high growth roles and kind of fast paced companies. Um, so that’s kind of, uh, where I got my start is the, uh, The very chaotic, uh, four sibling home.
Wyatt Smith: I’m curious if there’s a moment from childhood that stands out, Rachel, around, uh, you know, your love of building things and getting a chance to grow companies, entrepreneurially, anything that you’d reflect on and say, yeah, that was a pretty good signal early on of the path I was on.
Rachel Zepernick: Uh, I wouldn’t say it was like one moment.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, but I started working pretty early. I think my first job, I was like 13. Um, so I just kind of always wanted to, and maybe this was something my mom or dad. Kind of ingrained in me, but I always wanted to do things for myself. Um, so I didn’t like asking for money or [00:04:00] allowance. I wanted to be able to earn that myself.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, so not very glamorous or sexy jobs, but you know, I worked at Ben and Jerry’s. I, uh, worked at an arcade. I worked in a grocery store. So anything I could do to kind of build my own, uh, wealth was exciting for me. And, and it was great to work with other people and, and, um, kind of. Start my leadership path, but it started very early for me.
Rachel Zepernick: So
Alex Hudgens: you have really strong arms and then
Alex Hudgens: you’re at Ben and Jerry’s for any length of time. I’m telling you, ice cream scooping is hard to appreciate actually.
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah, it really is. I did eat a lot. Everyone’s asked, did you eat ice cream? I mean, I had ice cream for lunch all day long, but just constant ice cream.
Rachel Zepernick: So I still love
Rachel Zepernick: it.
Alex Hudgens: Wyatt, you had a real question. Go ahead.
Wyatt Smith: Well, well, you know, the, it’s, it’s really fun to think about ways that your, your career then played out through consulting and working with lots of different companies to get into the work you’re doing now. So wonder what that, that transition was like for you.[00:05:00]
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah, so I spent, I spent like a decade in the industry post business school. So, um, I worked at LEK Consulting for about 6 years, um, in home improvement and building and construction. So I dabbled across industries, but honed in pretty quickly on, um, that industry and worked across, um, verticals within it.
Rachel Zepernick: If you can name it, roofing, siding, furniture, cabinetry, flooring, I mean, any vertical within the space. Thanks. I’ve, uh, worked in, so helping clients kind of think through how to grow their business sales and marketing strategies, new segments or materials to enter, um, especially like material trends in the industry over that time.
Rachel Zepernick: So kind of got my, uh, initial view of the industry then, and then I’ve worked at Angi for about 4 years, um, and I manage our enterprise sales strategy team. Um, so again, like you mentioned, Wyatt, uh, supporting our largest clients, our enterprise level clients in growing their business, which is really exciting.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, and we, we just have this kind of [00:06:00] special relationship with them where we’re speaking with them a lot and we’re getting a lot of pain points from them. A lot of, uh, you know, demand drivers really hearing what makes them tick all the time. Um, and it’s such a great way to learn about, um, you know, the industry in general and to find opportunities to better our product across all sizes of, of, uh, service professionals.
Rachel Zepernick: We’d be able to kind of delight the customer who’s even looking for a couple of leads per month versus, you know, thousands of leads. So, um, I really enjoyed the role, but, um, that, but yeah, about, about a decade in the industry.
Wyatt Smith: And set the scene for people listening. We, what characterizes an enterprise segment customer?
Wyatt Smith: And Angi, what do they look and, and sound like?
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah, it’s probably different for a lot of companies in this space. Um, for us, it’s really, um, about what you’re looking for and, and, uh, how many leads you’re looking for. So again, you could, what’s special about Angi is we have a ton of demand. Um, so I think that differentiates us or one of the largest marketplaces in this space.
Rachel Zepernick: We had 22 million service requests last year, [00:07:00] so tons of homeowner demand, um, and hundreds of thousands of service professionals across like a thousand tasks. Um, so really any home improvement job you want to get done, we can offer, um, from a homeowner and a pro perspective. So you could be a pro that’s just, again, looking for three to five, you know, custom leads per month.
Rachel Zepernick: Uh, and you could be the largest pro in the U. S. Uh, we work with some of the largest service providers in the U. S. Uh, serving, you know, thousands of leads per month. So, you can really fill your calendar with whatever demand you’re looking for. Um, so I think that’s something that’s kind of special about, about what we offer.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, but as an enterprise client, you get account management, you have kind of a more regular touchpoint, uh, with some of our, our senior, uh, sales leaders. Um, you’d likely have some analytics as well. Maybe you’re looking at your ROI more, um, kind of regularly on a more monthly basis. We’re optimizing your account.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, so it kind of depends how much of a touch point you want with us. Um, but that can be highly beneficial for someone buying, you know, [00:08:00] thousands of leads from us.
Wyatt Smith: Totally. And, uh, it’s, it’s interesting, the challenges that people are facing right now have some similarities across the country as it relates to lead generation.
Wyatt Smith: And so I’m, I’m curious how you would, how you would define what you’re hearing from customers right now in the enterprise segment? What are they, what are they facing?
Rachel Zepernick: That’s a good question. Uh, I mean, I think we’re going to talk about this today for sure, but this kind of labor shortage, it is massive. Um, so it’s a huge problem.
Rachel Zepernick: I think we ran a survey recently, it was 70 percent of respondents said the labor shortage was a hurdle. Um, and I think another interesting stat was 66 percent of them said they could grow their business if they only had the labor to support it. And that’s so interesting that, like, in order to make this industry grow and to make, you know, service professionals able to grow, they need to be able to have the labor to, to meet the demand that they want.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, and I think that’s really important for service professionals. I also think it trickles down to the homeowner. Um, you know, if, if all, if there’s [00:09:00] a demand shortage or a labor shortage, and there’s a ton of demand, that means your timeline’s delayed. So you may not even get your job done this season.
Rachel Zepernick: That means your prices go up. Um, so I think, you know, this is a, a really big issue that affects every single home in the U. S. and that affects every homeowner in the U. S. But also all the service professionals kind of, kind of meeting that demand. So that’s kind of one of the major issues that we hear about.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, and again, I’m sure we’ll spend a lot of time on what’s driving that and, and, um, uh, how to kind of combat that. But, uh, one of the major issues we’re hearing is, you know, we can’t take on more demand if we don’t have the labor to support it.
Wyatt Smith: No, it’s a problem we think about all the time. And, uh, and maybe that’s a good transition to talk about Angi, what it means to be sort of a home expert who’s serving this problem for enterprise customers there.
Wyatt Smith: Help us get up to speed on how you all set up the work.
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah. Um, so I think, uh, at Angi, our mission is Jobs Done Well. I think you might’ve seen some of our ads recently where we’ve talked about this. And. I think at its most kind of core, uh, [00:10:00] uh, explanation, Jobs Done Well is that match between the homeowner looking to get the job done, um, and the qualified service professional who can execute the work.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, so I think that’s our main goal is being able to provide those matches of the qualified professionals to homeowners seeking the job. But I think Job’s Done Well is beyond just that match, um, it’s also making sure that we’re kind of informing that homeowner of what the process looks like. So you’ll see a lot of articles and um, kind of content on our website.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, uh, and beyond we, we work with a number of news sites as well. To kind of I’m going to talk about cost guides, um, you know, what this project might cost, what might drive costs, what questions should you ask your, your contractor in the process to kind of like make a more confident homeowner in the discussion process.
Rachel Zepernick: So, um, I think we try to be an expert in the industry as well, uh, you know, how this process works and, and how to approach the process. So you’ll see a lot of that data as well. Um, and, I’m super proud that Angi’s also investing in trying to solve the, the [00:11:00] labor shortage. Um, so a number of things that we’re working on, I can get into those in a second.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, but I’m, I’m, uh, I think one of the key ways to solve the shortage is to have companies like Angi who are in the space, um, really putting their money where their mouth is and start investing and attempting to solve it. Let’s get into it. Do tell,
Alex Hudgens: what is it that you’re
Alex Hudgens: doing to invest?
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah, definitely.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, so we just launched a couple of months ago, a trade up day. Um, so, uh, we launched a marketing campaign that is seeking to de-stigmatize the trades, which is a massive problem. Now, I think the stigma of not going to a four year college, um, and, and potentially entering a different career is the major problem.
Rachel Zepernick: Again, we can get into that in a second. Um, but in launching the trade up day, uh, we also created three key initiatives. One is scholarship, so we’re helping four students get, um, uh, trained in the trades. We launched a partnership with a company called Blue Recruit, which is a software. They refer to themselves as match.
Rachel Zepernick: com of the [00:12:00] industry. Um, uh, and they really are, they’re matching, uh, employers, uh, in the industry who are looking for qualified, skilled labor, I think they have like 55, 000, uh, job seekers on their platform. They partner with 600 trade schools. Um, so really impressive platform. Um, and, uh, what’s great about our partnership is that any Angi pro in our network has free access to the software.
Rachel Zepernick: So again, just trying to, um, trying to reduce the hurdles, uh, for our network and, and how to build out the supply they need to meet the demand they can get on Angi. And then lastly, we also started a podcast, uh, highly recommend checking out, little plug for it. Um, it’s called Trade Up with Angi Hicks, our co-founder and the founder of, um, Angie’s List.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, it’s super inspiring. She has pros come on in the Angi network and kind of talk about their story. How’d they get involved? What was their childhood like? A lot of them actually entered the trades later in life. So how did that process look? What do they like about their jobs? Um, so just kind of inspiring stories and again, destigmatizing [00:13:00] how, um, entering the trades can be an incredibly fulfilling and lucrative career.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, so it’s been exciting to hear those stories. Uh, we, we get a lot of testimonials ourselves, but, um, it’s, it’s nice to see those stories more publicly as well.
Alex Hudgens: That’s really cool.
Wyatt Smith: That’s great. And as you’re, as you’re making those investments, uh, what are you guys learning? What are the things that are coming out around how to effectively fill some of these skilled labor gaps that companies are facing?
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah, it’s, it’s really interesting. Um, actually, just taking a step back here, it’s, it’s so intriguing as a mom, um, and I don’t know Wyatt, if you feel this way, or Alex, if, if you have kids, but, uh, there’s like no stigma with my three and a half year old in the trade. He’s obsessed with the trades. Like, he’s correcting me.
Rachel Zepernick: We’re driving down the road. He’s like, no, mommy, that’s a front end loader. That’s not an excavator. And like, You know, we’re going to construction birthday parties, and it’s not just he’s obsessed with the trades, it’s like society is pushing it on him, like, all the clothes you can buy on Amazon are firetrucks or construction equipment.
Rachel Zepernick: It’s, again, construction birthday parties, we’re reading construction books every night. So it’s so interesting, this shift of, [00:14:00] in toddlerhood, society pushes this on you, and construction is great, and the trades are great. And there’s something in this kind of like middle school, high school timeframe, where people who like to work with their hands might want to get involved in the trades.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, where society says like, no, you should go to a four year college, which again is the answer for some people and not for others. So I think that like gap is what we’re trying to solve for is as people age out of the industry, how do we kind of incentivize people to enter the industry? Um, so that’s kind of something that we’re thinking about.
Rachel Zepernick: We’re talking about with other companies that we partner with of, of trying to solve that gap of. Um, uh, of again, you know, that’s part of why we’re thinking about like the scholarship, trying to get people into the trades who may not be able to otherwise. So, um, I think that’s one of the, the key learnings that we’ve seen is that, and I very much see in my day to day of that, that shift in, in society pressure, um, from that, you know, toddler to, to middle school, uh, timeframe.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, but it is, it’s such a lucrative career. So I think this is, you know, [00:15:00] You hear it on the podcast with Angie Hicks, and you hear it from the pros that I talk to, you know, day to day and that our sales team is interacting with. It’s like 90 percent job satisfaction. The average in the US is like 35%, significantly more job satisfaction.
Rachel Zepernick: It’s lucrative compensations. Like, I think plumbers and general contractors make like 20 to 50 percent more than the average wage in the US. Uh, AI is not replacing these jobs. Um, uh, one thing you hear a lot on our podcast is like, no two days, that no two days are the same. So you get to work with your hands.
Rachel Zepernick: It’s creative, but you’re also doing sales and marketing and learning all of these other like amazing skill sets, um, in the process of the job. So it’s really creative, um, uh, and lifelong skill sets, um, little to no debt. So there’s just so many reasons why this is a lucrative career and why it is a fulfilling career.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, so I think that’s, one of the learnings too, is, is that it’s not coming out necessarily yet and, and we need to focus a lot more on that and, that’s in all of the campaigns that we’re thinking
Rachel Zepernick: about.
Alex Hudgens: [00:16:00] You just unlocked such, I’m like, you’re right. How many dump trucks and construction based things have I bought for the three year olds in my life?
Alex Hudgens: Yes.
Rachel Zepernick: One hundred percent and there’s no option like it’s not like the society is pushing us towards that so it’s such an It’s so interesting and so in my face every day now that kind of difference Between that and and you know the 15 18 age frame. So it’s became endless.
Alex Hudgens: I’m like, oh Yeah,
Rachel Zepernick: We also a lot of the pros that we had on her our podcast so far talked about you know, “If you want to get into the trades, how should you?”
Rachel Zepernick: Um, if you’re in high school, and it’s interesting too, it’s just like, get your, get your hands dirty, you know, call a local pro and say, ‘Hey,’ you know, my ice cream job didn’t pay nearly what a laborer would, would get paid. And then you have cash, uh, you’ve on the job site experience. Um, so that’s, there’s just so many easy ways to get kind of early experience if you’re interested in that [00:17:00] path or interested in working with your hands.
Rachel Zepernick: And again, there’s so many jobs you can have in the trades too. You could do sales or marketing, um, or you could work with your hands and do really beautiful work. So, um, I think there’s a lot of opportunity.
Wyatt Smith: Just like you, we, we talk to pros every day who talk about how increasingly difficult it is to get high quality leads to go then run their teams against.
Wyatt Smith: And I’m, I’m curious about the reasons behind that from your perspective. Why is it that leads are becoming increasingly expensive and pros are facing, you know, More and more challenges about the top of funnel challenge to go solve.
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah. I mean, I think actually one of the things we hear is less of the top of funnel, but they’re also talking about kind of close rates.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, and you see this in some of the macro, um, hurdles that we face. So, um, you know, it’s interest rates and financing options being more limited right now than they were in kind of the COVID timeframe. Um, close rates are just lower. So you kind of need to fill more top of funnel in order to get more homeowners to actually close the job.
Rachel Zepernick: So, um, you might hear [00:18:00] like tire kickers, but these are, these are real homeowners who really want to get work done. Then they see the price like, nah, I can wait till the end of the summer or whatever that is. Um, so I think that’s a real hurdle that we talk about with our pros of, you know, how to create urgency and how to, um, uh, you know, talk through, instead of just giving a price, let’s talk through what drives that price.
Rachel Zepernick: And I think about this, I just got a fence done at our home, uh, it was an Angi pro, uh, who I found through the Angi network, um, and they were great. And I kind of like talk through what drives this price. Is it, you know, the length, the material, the height, what is really actually driving the price? And if we want a different price, how do we get there?
Rachel Zepernick: What can, what can we do? Um, so I think, you know, having those conversations and that flexibility can help some of that close rate. Um, but we definitely see some macro macro effects on, you know, the ROI of any given lead.
Wyatt Smith: What really resonates with us is increasingly we hear it’s so important to follow the right practice and, and set of processes once you’re in that home inspection and working with a [00:19:00] homeowner..
Wyatt Smith: And one of the things that we’ve been helping contractors with is helping support people for offering multiple options for service. So here are a good, better, best alternative to be able to resolve your problem.
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah, definitely.
Wyatt Smith: Something as simple as offering three high quality options can drive that higher close rate in part because it’s a more consultative visit in that sense, but we’d love to hear what you’re seeing too.
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah. And that’s so important and such a great, uh, path forward and good advice for, for a service professional. I think there’s like an education gap too with the homeowner. Uh, you know, most homeowners aren’t like negotiating day to day with everything they’re doing. You know, they, you go to the grocery store and you buy the product for what it is.
Rachel Zepernick: You don’t say like, ‘hey, can I get it for a dollar cheaper?’ Um, or like ‘what drives this price?’ It’s just the price. So I think that’s like, that’s something that we talked about on the cost guides of, you know, what can drive the price. Try to again, like help the homeowner be more confident in the discussion.
Rachel Zepernick: But I think the pro could also be involved in, in, um, that kind of negotiation process and offering [00:20:00] up different options that we can talk about price, we can talk about what drives this and we can, you know, think through how to, um, how to make this work for you versus one option feels very final to the homeowner and they may not be educated enough on the process to know that they can even have a conversation about it.
Rachel Zepernick: So they just go elsewhere. Um, so, uh, I think it’s important to get multiple quotes to make sure you’re getting a fair price, but I also think it’s, it’s great advice for the service professional to be able to provide a kind of range for the homeowner within what works for them.
Wyatt Smith: Totally completely resonates.
Wyatt Smith: Alex, you, you as an apartment dweller, haven’t had as much experience with, uh, contracting of service providers, but Alex and I were talking last week. We had a issue an Dallas where it was really hot. AC wasn’t working increasingly. The summer temperatures are rising and. The home service professional who came out did such an awesome job of like really taking his time, probably spent a couple of hours with our family, like walking through all the different things that he had had figured out on the.
Wyatt Smith: On the evaluation and it’s, you [00:21:00] build a lot of trust quickly with someone who shows a real interest in taking care of you. And I’m sure you’re seeing that from some of your higher performing enterprise customers too, on the platform.
Rachel Zepernick: Definitely. I think what’s so amazing is one lead from Angi can turn into multiple leads down the road.
Rachel Zepernick: So our fencer. I gave his contact to two other people and my neighbor got a fence for him too. So like the value of my lead that he got through Angi was significant. So I think word of mouth is still very common in the industry. It’s still very important. Those kind of referrals to the neighbors is a really big deal.
Rachel Zepernick: When you’re providing such an important service, especially when like heat in your, or AC in your, in your home. I think that’s such a kind of critical job. Um, so doing the job well having that great service, you get so much more value out of every lead that you paid for your ROI just continues to, to, um, uh, continues to grow as you get those referrals to the rest of
Rachel Zepernick: the
Rachel Zepernick: neighbors.
Wyatt Smith: That’s awesome. All right. Is it easy to track the downstream impact of [00:22:00] those referrals? Follow on referrals that come from, from your, from your side, or is that more challenging to do?
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah, much more challenging. Uh, we do talk about it with our pros and some of them track it better than others. Um, I, but it’s tough to track, I think, even for service professionals who are very sophisticated.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, but, uh, those that do, do try to, especially if they’re leveraging like a CRM system, um, there are a number in the space that are home improvement specific, um, they can kind of better tag some of the leads together. Um, but it is a tough stat to track.
Wyatt Smith: Some of the more sophisticated companies out there doing as it relates to showing ROI on their marketing spend?
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah, um, I think one is like actually tracking it. Um, so I think there’s a lot you can do to, uh, to optimize your account if you even have the knowledge to know. Uh, what’s there that, um, so some people literally write it down. Some people have a Excel spreadsheet. Some people are using a better software to track that, but tracking not just on average, what’s my cost of marketing, what’s my ROI, [00:23:00] but also by your different geographies by maybe your different sales reps by, um, the different tasks that you’re purchasing.
Rachel Zepernick: How are you seeing your return, um, or your cost of marketing? I think that helps. And then over time, there’s going to be fluctuations. Yeah, there are certain seasons where things convert better or convert less, um, or where there are spikes of demand. Uh, but being able to track that over time, you’re able to kind of see where there’s trends.
Rachel Zepernick: Maybe you’re, oh, wow, this one sales rep has a really great close rate. Uh, uh, but if I look down the funnel, uh, the other sales rep is not closing as much, even though our, our ROI is great. We could actually have a better ROI if they’re closing better. That’s like learning you could take from one sales rep to kind of train the other sales rep and get a better ROI on the same number of leads.
Rachel Zepernick: So I think being able to drill down, uh, our most sophisticated pros are drilling down, not just in averages, but in super specific across the funnel from lead to appointment, appointment, cancel to appointment, close sale, et cetera. Um, uh, across all of their different kind [00:24:00] of matrices, and we often help them with that too.
Rachel Zepernick: Again, as an enterprise client, you have access to our, uh, my team, uh, our analytics team, uh, to our account management team to kind of help you think through that process. And we can make recommendations for you if we’re at a shift spend to try to optimize what’s working. Um, uh, so, uh, I think that’s what the most sophisticated pros think about it in that way.
Wyatt Smith: That’s fascinating. Um, well, my last question, this topic is around like trends. You’re hearing from them as you have these conversations about places where they’re saying, gosh, it’d be so helpful if Angi could support us in growing in this way. Are there any patterns that you see there on the, the challenges folks are facing?
Rachel Zepernick: Um, I think one that, that we’re hearing, um, Um, Uh, vertical specific, but one that we’re hearing is the seasonal verticals. How do you fill your calendar for your crews off season? So I’ll use painting as an example. Um, really heavy, busy summer season, especially exterior painting. Uh, it’s gotta be warm in order to be able to paint the home.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, so, uh, [00:25:00] I think we see major spikes in sort of the May to September timeframe. Um, and then what do you do? You have these crews, you want to keep those crews because you need them for next year, but you need to find kind of jobs to give them, um, and there are enough, there isn’t enough demand to, to fulfill that calendar.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, so I think one of the things that, um, that we’ve talked through is looking at other tasks that make sense. Um, so what are some sort of adjacencies that could make sense for your business to leverage the labor that you do have that’s really high quality and doing other things. So. One example with the painting space, uh, holiday lights, depending on the region is a really big, uh, vertical.
Rachel Zepernick: It’s obviously only in the winter, but taking them down and installing them, they require similar skill sets. You need a ladder, uh, you need to be able to place them. There’s sort of an install with the product and also a maintenance typically, um, that you’re paying. Um, so I think it’s kind of a similar approach and similar skill set.
Rachel Zepernick: So thinking through it, we kind of help, uh, some of our clients who struggle with, Off season to think [00:26:00] through what are some other tasks might make sense for your crew to get into to fill your calendar when you may not be as busy with your core product. And there are other ones. Power washing. There’s a couple other ones that you’ll see in any painter’s website.
Rachel Zepernick: They’ll do a couple of different, um, different types of verticals, but we try to help think through what is a typical painter do, for example, to help fill that calendar.
Wyatt Smith: I love the example of maintenance plans to saying, like, if we have some type of. Evergreen relationship with the homeowner and we can schedule somebody to come out, you know, early October during what would be a normally slow season, but to do a tune up and understand how things are working, that’s something we’ve seen companies do really well.
Rachel Zepernick: Oh, definitely. I see as a homeowner all the time, like, you know, the landscaper, uh, the pest control, you know, all of those types of jobs. Honestly, as a homeowner, I don’t want to have to think about it and remember to reach out to you. I just want it to happen. So it’s easier for me. Um, so I think that, uh, that can be really beneficial.
Rachel Zepernick: Gutter cleaning too. You know, we see a lot of those kinds of subscription [00:27:00] services and a lot of homeowners like that. The ease of just, you know, one sign up, uh, and let’s move forward and you just show up. Um, so yeah,
Alex Hudgens: It’s a lot of work, y’all.
Alex Hudgens: I’m telling you, I’ve been struggling with my, uh, window unit AC in New York City right now, but I’m like, I don’t have to deal with gutters, so we’ll see.
Alex Hudgens: Uh,
Rachel Zepernick: they said, they said to buy a home. Yeah. We, uh, we just purchased our first home last year. It’s been from New York. So it’s been a different, different process.
Wyatt Smith: Yeah.
Rachel Zepernick: Good things and, and hurdles.
Wyatt Smith: We started talking about the skilled worker shortage. It’s, it’s definitely the mission that our company is focused on, on helping, helping other firms tackle.
Wyatt Smith: Uh, there’s nearly 1 million openings in the U. S. skilled trades market across construction manufacturing right now. Even with a really good jobs report last week, uh, this number has stayed persistently high, curious about some of the ways it’s impacting Angi’s business, and you talked a little bit about some of the investments you’re making to help companies tackle it.
Wyatt Smith: But how do you all think [00:28:00] about this strategically? I’m not in the main.
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah. I mean, I think this is kind of the first of likely more to come of our investments in this space. It’s again, so critical for our pros in order to be able to grow. Um, uh, so in order for our, for our kind of paying customer base, uh, they can’t accept more demand if they can’t add the labor to achieve it.
Rachel Zepernick: So I think that’s just. Um, and again, calling out that it affects the homeowner too. Um, we may not think of it day to day, but I’ve had quotes in my own home where, you know, I tried to get on the calendar and their books for literally the entire season. Oh, how about March of next year? So, um, I think it really does affect the entire U S.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, so I think it’s a critical investment space and we see other companies, um, starting to invest as well. A really large companies and kind of home improvement retail, et cetera. Um, uh, starting to think through, uh, scholarships, um, starting to think through, um, like job fairs as well. Um, and [00:29:00] kind of, uh, this match.
Rachel Zepernick: com kind of connecting the skilled workers who can do the work and, and the, the jobs or the, um, employers who are looking for them. So it’s something we think about a lot. Um, it’s definitely a hurdle for our largest pros, um, uh, but very excited about the investments we’re making in the space.
Wyatt Smith: They’re, they’re exciting ones.
Wyatt Smith: They’re exciting ones. Do you see any gaps in the market places where, gosh, if someone were investing in technology, help solve a problem in this way related to this problem, they can make a, a big contribution.
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah. Um, uh, Not necessarily a technology gap, but one massive gap is women in the trades. Um, so, uh, yeah, I think about this a lot.
Rachel Zepernick: I’m actually very lucky. My team is like 40 percent women and the enterprise sales team, the leadership team is 60 percent women, over 60 percent women. So I get to work with a lot of women, um, but, uh, realistically, they’re not a lot of women in the trades. I think the latest US stats, uh, uh, it showed like 10%, uh, women in the [00:30:00] trades.
Rachel Zepernick: Uh, our survey had an 81 percent male response, response rate. So just dominated by, by men. I think what’s interesting is the labor shortage wouldn’t exist if women were in the trades at the same rate that men were, it would just be solved. Um, so, uh, I think there’s a lot we need to work on as a society of de-stigmatizing the trades, but also a lot of kind of attracting people who aren’t necessarily in the trades right now to the trades like women.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, and I think in order to do that, there’s like two key things that you should probably focus on to get any group, um, into any industry. And I think one of those is hiring, um, and one of those is, uh, retaining. So in hiring that, you know, removing bias from your processes, uh, making it a focus to focus on different groups that are not necessarily where you currently go.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, and then on retention, productivity, uh, motivating your employees, which I know you guys think about a lot, um, uh, and also I think mentorship is really important to kind of loyalty and, and retention. So, [00:31:00] um, when you have kind of new folks in the trades, like, uh, you’re, if you’re hiring a lot of women into the trades, creating that kind of formal mentorship can help.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, and I’ve, I’ve started to see that in the last five years, a lot of the industry events I’ve attended, there’s like a women in the trades event. Um, we work with a painting association, speaking of painting, um, that has like a women in paint event, they’re big expo. So I start, I’m starting to see those kind of formal mentorship opportunities, but I think that’s another kind of key area where if you create those relationships and you create those, um, uh, formal mentorship, uh, kind of lines of mentorship, I think, Uh, you can help retain, uh, folks who are not necessarily in the trades right now, uh, as I start to enter.
Wyatt Smith: I love it. Well, I think it’s time for our, our lightning round, which Alex leads for us. Um, and, and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll hand it to her to kick off. We’d love to get a couple of, uh, quick reads from
Wyatt Smith: you.
Rachel Zepernick: One other thing, actually, before we get into that, just on automation. Uh, we had a pro, you know, our, as I think about [00:32:00] like technology and, and kind of AI in the space, which I know you guys are thinking about a lot as, as a kind of software company, but, um, uh, one pro who joined our podcast said, um, something like, “I don’t see Chat GPT swinging a hammer anytime soon.”
Rachel Zepernick: And he’s right, like, AI is not doing the actual physical job. Very much, right. Uh, but we see a ton of automation in the logistics of the trade. Um, so I think. What’s really special about being a technology company in construction is what you are doing is making those logistics easier so that the pro can focus on what they’re best at, which is like doing the work with their hands and executing the job and doing a really great job, a Job Done Well.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, so I think it’s, it’s really cool to see a lot of folks entering the space. UpSmith is one, um, but you see like TMS software. So like truck management software, handling fleets for some of the larger pros you see. CRMs, who are, like I mentioned, home improvement [00:33:00] specific, that are working on you know, tracking your leads, and estimation process and payment processes, you can see, like AI generated texting companies, uh, who can help qualify your leads.
Rachel Zepernick: Uh, so again, I think there’s a lot of different ways that technology providers can get involved in the logistics of the trade and again, ease that kind of more painful upstream process so that the service professional can really focus on executing the work. So, um, great time to get involved in the trades.
Rachel Zepernick: There’s a lot of opportunity in automation.
Wyatt Smith: We couldn’t agree more. We couldn’t agree more. Well, we’re excited to work on this problem. Um, Angi, obviously such an important leader for the industry. Thank you for, for sharing your impact. Oh, that you’re working on with us. We would, we would be remiss not to get some lightning round questions in.
Alex Hudgens: I would also be remiss not to say plus one to more women in the trades. I would be remiss not to say that. I’m like, yeah, she brought it up. Yes. Yes. It would have come up. Don’t worry. Uh, okay. Lightning round. Yeah. I am a book nerd. You can’t see too many of my background right now, but there’s about 400 in this one bedroom apartment.
Alex Hudgens: Yes. We would love a book recommendation from you. All right. What do you [00:34:00] recommend? You know, contextually as it pertains to leadership or the trades or anything like that, that’s really helped you.
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah. Um, I’ll do a book and a podcast, uh, replug on Angie’s podcast, Trade Up, also UpSmith’s podcast. Um, uh, but, uh, I do think it’s, uh, and really inspiring stories to hear about people finding fulfillment in this career, so I love it.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, and a personal podcast rec is SmartLess, uh, which is, um, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and Will Arnett actually kind of talking about something similar, but with celebrities. So how did you get into film or, or singing or whatever it is? What was your childhood like, uh, again, just kind of inspiring stories of those trades.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, and then book wise, um, I love the books Crucial Conversations. Um, I’m trying to think of my, I feel like I have it in here. I do have it. Crucial Conversations. Highly recommend, um, it is a framework, kind of, how to [00:35:00] approach emotionally high, high stakes, difficult conversations. There are a ton of books on, on difficult conversations, especially in the negotiating space, but I think this one is a really good, how do you deal with objection handling when stakes are high?
Rachel Zepernick: How do you, um, kind of deescalate? Um, and actually our, our whole sales team had to read it and we went through a CruCons training, which I also highly recommend. Um, but just a great way to approach, honestly, your personal life too, but in your professional life, dealing with those kinds of things.
Rachel Zepernick: Difficult emotional conversations that you might have with a client or customer or a competitor or whatever it is.
Alex Hudgens: Spouse, I’ve been married, just hit the one year anniversary. So maybe, let’s go. I love it. What is a tool that you use in your life that’s been invaluable for you? And We love it if it’s underrated.
Alex Hudgens: It’s okay if it’s not, but you know, if you say my email, we’re like, okay, we get it. But what’s a tool that’s worked for you? Yeah. Okay.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, good [00:36:00] question. Some like existential tools and then like an actual tool, um, which is a little underrated, I think. But, um, I think for me, I see this a lot in like, uh, posts about productivity, but routine is very important to me.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, and again, maybe this is like being a mom, but there’s just like so much going on in my brain that’s taking space that has nothing to do with like important work and difficult questions. I’m trying to answer at work and anything I can do to routinize and remove me having to think about the little things like.
Rachel Zepernick: Instead of what should lunch be tomorrow, I literally made a menu for the month. I don’t want to spend time thinking about it, we’re just doing what’s on the menu. Um, so I think anything you can do to create some routine to remove, like, wasted brain energy on things that just, like, don’t really matter can help you focus on the things that matter a lot.
Rachel Zepernick: So that’s maybe a little more existential, but I definitely am a person of routine. Our household is, is a person of routine, I guess. Um, and then I think the tool I use to, uh, I use an app called [00:37:00] Cape, I think it’s called, it blocks social media. So I love social media. I learned a ton from social media. Uh, I follow many things on social media.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, a lot of advice for parenting that I get from it, but you can scroll for hours and just, you Not even realize you did it. Uh, so I block, especially Monday through Friday, I’m only allowed a certain amount of time. I think I actually block it completely Monday through Friday. Um, and you can like unblock it through the app.
Rachel Zepernick: But I remember a little story for you the first day I did it, I counted how many times I accidentally went to the apps without even like thinking about it was 23 times that I just like my thumb went to it and then I was like, Oh, maybe I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t definitely block this during the week. So, uh, just like wasted time that you don’t have necessarily, uh, especially during the work week.
Rachel Zepernick: I want to spend time with my family. I want to spend time on my job. I don’t want to be wasting it scrolling, so, um, I think an app really helps me separate that and, and, you know, I’m choosing when I’m, when I’m doing it to, to purposefully good.
Alex Hudgens: [00:38:00] Like, phantom, I, I do the thing where you close Instagram and then immediately reopen it.
Alex Hudgens: Like, why?
Rachel Zepernick: Right. Yes, and I don’t, I don’t even think about it. I’m like, I, it didn’t even occur to me until I started counting how often I do that.
Alex Hudgens: Okay, I’ve not heard of Capes. Woo hoo! Definitely.
Rachel Zepernick: It may not be the best in the industry, it’s just the one that is intuitive and works for me, so.
Alex Hudgens: Are there any, well, you actually already gave us a podcast rec.
Alex Hudgens: We haven’t done this question in a while Wyatt, and I like it. Rachel, what is a question that you think people need to ask themselves more often?
Rachel Zepernick: Whoa. Um,
Rachel Zepernick: I think, It is a human nature or it is inhuman nature to kind of blame a little bit, uh, or to deflect blame from ourselves. So, uh, you know, if you’re debriefing a meeting, uh, I think you tend to be say things like in your head, at least, Oh, you know, if legal had just, you know, sped up that timeline or like, Oh, if I was on the product [00:39:00] roadmap, you know, I, or if this person gave this thing to me beforehand, I could have done better.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, so I think a question I try to ask myself at least is like, Where you kind of take accountability, like where could I have affected that meeting, both positively and negatively things I did well and things I could have done better. Um, so maybe that’s a question I would, I think anyone could ask themselves is like, how did you affect things and how could you change things for the better?
Rachel Zepernick: Um, or what things did you do really well that you could leverage in other meetings versus that gut reaction to just be like, Oh, it was, it was other folks or other teams that, that affected it negatively. So. Ask yourself where you could have, uh, made the change, um, or
Rachel Zepernick: where you did great.
Alex Hudgens: It is obvious that you are a good leader.
Alex Hudgens: I’m like, I bet your team has a great work life. That’s awesome. Well, we’re at time. So our last technical rapid fire question is where can we find you? How can we support you?
Rachel Zepernick: For sure.
Rachel Zepernick: Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn, Rachel Zepernick. Um, [00:40:00] you can also find Angi, A N G I, uh, we’ve dropped the E and the list.
Rachel Zepernick: Um, but you can find us on all your socials, on LinkedIn as well. Um, you can also go to Angi.com if you are a homeowner and you’re looking to get work done and find a qualified professional to get that work done for you, we will match you to local pros so you can get it, your Job Done Well. Um, and if you’re a pro come over to signup.
Rachel Zepernick: Angi. com. Uh, we’d love to work with you and love to provide whatever demand you’re looking for and whatever task you’re looking for. Uh, so feel free to visit us anywhere there.
Wyatt Smith: Well, Rachel, we’re, we’re grateful for you. Totally. Thank you for spending your time with us. Uh, we’re, we’re very much on your team.
Rachel Zepernick: We’re on your team
Wyatt Smith: for this big mission.
Rachel Zepernick: Yeah, we’re pumped to, to continue to keep in touch and, and, uh, hopefully help combat some of this stigma we see.
Wyatt Smith: Right. Take care. We’ll see you next time. On Untapped with UpSmith.
