Chris Hunter: [00:00:00] The simplest yet most overlooked thing that everyone does. All right.
Wyatt Smith: Welcome to Untapped with UpSmith. And I’m thrilled to be joined today by Chris Hunter, who’s the director of customer relations at ServiceTitan. Chris, great to see you.
Chris Hunter: Hey, great. Great to be on. Thanks for inviting me.
Wyatt Smith: It’s really, really super to have you. Um, we at UpSmith are building this podcast to have contractors get access to the best thinking around growing their businesses and really tackling the labor productivity challenges that are out there, given the skilled worker shortage.
Wyatt Smith: So having you on as somebody that’s such an expert here [00:01:00] is, is really special. Thanks for your time.
Chris Hunter: Uh, yeah, I’m honored to be here and actually just quick little update. So I know it says director of customer relations, but actually I am the principal industry advisor. So it’s a, it’s a little bit different, uh, twist.
Chris Hunter: Let’s go. Principal industry advisor.
Wyatt Smith: That’s a pretty cool title.
Chris Hunter: Chris. Yeah. Principal. I didn’t need, I, you know, I didn’t know what that meant. I’m like, well, heck yeah. Sounds important. Let’s let’s I’m, I’m just a contractor. I didn’t know, but I I’m enjoying the job.
Wyatt Smith: There you go. Well, we’re going to do some, some principal advising on this call, talking about good things you’re seeing and ways that can help contractors win.
Wyatt Smith: I thought it’s always really fun to start with just someone’s backstory, where they came from, why they got excited, what they’re doing now. Do you mind starting with a little bit of your personal story and what led you to their career choices you’ve made so far?
Chris Hunter: Yeah, I’ll, and I’ll try to give the cliff notes version, but.
Chris Hunter: Probably this story resonates with a lot of people that listen because I got [00:02:00] into the trades completely by accident. I was not planning on it, had no intention of it. But in high school they had an easy half a day. If I went to the air conditioning class, And then I knew I could get out and go play baseball, you know, the other half and my senior year was going to be a breeze.
Chris Hunter: Never thought I’d use it. So I went, I went there and lo and behold, I actually liked it. And then fast forward a few years later, I’m not, not doing air conditioning. I’m actually working for AT& T as a communications technician. Um, and then, uh, 9/11 happened and they came in and they’re like, listen, we’re going to have to lay off 10, 000 of the new hires.
Chris Hunter: And I was one of them. And then they said, well, there is a caveat. We do have a few openings. If you could pass this test, we have an air conditioning slot available in your area. Um, you can keep your job. So, I must have retained a little bit of that knowledge that I learned in that, uh, that, uh, test. vo-tech [00:03:00] class in high school, took it, fell in love with the job, man.
Chris Hunter: I just love solving problems. I loved the challenge of always something new. I wasn’t in one place all the time. I got out and about. So I just really threw everything I had into learning air conditioning, you know, and trying to be the best that I could. And then a few years after that, uh, my boss of all things, he told me, he said, Chris, you’re pretty good at this.
Chris Hunter: You should think about, you know, starting your business or something, kind of a golden parachute so I did I went out and I got a got my license and I started doing it after hours and Before I knew it got overwhelmed with work So I had to leave AT& T and make that jump and then you know It was really tough from there because I was a really skilled technician.
Chris Hunter: I was good at solving one problem at a time. Connecting with one homeowner and then I found myself Having to run a business man, and I’m telling you what running the business and being the technician Those are two different jobs, two different [00:04:00] roles, everything. So I, I once again realized, Oh man, I’m going to learn how to run a business.
Chris Hunter: So I threw myself into learning how to run the business. I, I found the best of the best learn from them, studied from them. Got a lot of great mentors along the way. In fact, one of them is my business partner now, Ben Stark. Um, but I went through the Service Nation Alliance, which was the best practice group, and I just absorbed every piece of knowledge I could and went to implement on it.
Chris Hunter: So. And then from there, my company, man, God blessed us. We had a great run. I was in southern Oklahoma. We went from one location in the town of 25, 000 people to five different locations in Oklahoma and north Texas. And then I eventually sold that in 2018 to a private equity group called Turnpoint Services and uh, and exited the business after that.
Chris Hunter: And then that’s when ServiceTitan called me up to and they’re like, Hey, you know, We’re doing some awesome things here. We would really love to have the industry [00:05:00] kind of insider inside our company, you know, so you can be the voice of the customer. And I was like, man, I I’m game. I sounds right up my alley.
Chris Hunter: I love learning. I love keeping on top of what’s going on and I love serving people. So, uh, it’s been a great fit, but that’s kind of it in a summarized nutshell. That’s
Wyatt Smith: awesome, Chris. Well, I’d love to, for those who weren’t as familiar with your, your Your term of service when you run your own company, just a couple of stories from that, that period of time, you know, you, you guys won some best contractor awards.
Wyatt Smith: Yeah. You, you, you were given lots of recognition as a founder of the Ron Smith Industry Innovator Award. Can you, can you reflect back on some anecdotes? That you think really helped to capture what that experience was like. Yeah.
Chris Hunter: So one of the biggest things was, uh, I heard John Maxwell and he talked about the law of the lid and this law of the lid, man, it just hit me to my core, I realized this was [00:06:00] me and it, and it basically states that your leadership level is the lid.
Chris Hunter: On your organization, you know your own per and you’re gonna hit that lid. So unless you start to grow and learn, uh, and improve your own leadership level, you’re gonna be stuck. And, and I think this is why so many people do get stuck at a certain level. It’s, it’s their lid and they don’t know how to out, you know, outperform or outgrow that or how to lift that lid.
Chris Hunter: So John Maxwell talked about this leadership. So I, I dove into that once again and started learning about how to, how do I grow my leadership? How do I develop people? How do I, you know, make this happen? And, and honestly, after that and involving my team, uh, that was the game changer. So, I, I, there, there’s really two levels of this.
Chris Hunter: I mean, you got your people and your, your technology, you know, the sides of the business, and learning how to become a better leader and then effectively serve and create other leaders on my team. That was really what [00:07:00] lifted our lid and let us start to grow, uh, you know, as a company.
Wyatt Smith: So cool. Do you have a moment where you really feel like that transformed for yourself where you could feel your lid rising?
Chris Hunter: Yeah. I mean, so in the early days, you know, everything, uh, everything goes through the, the small business owner. I feel like in most cases, you know, so you’re, you’re overwhelmed, you’re stressed. The phone’s constantly stuck to your ear. You know, my kids, they, when they were younger, they, uh, you know, they paid the price for it.
Chris Hunter: Daddy was always gone working busy. Even if I was off, my brain was never off. I was always having to think and and and do and then, you know, fast forward a little bit when you learn how to invest in your people in your team, create systems and processes that are repeatable. and now I can leave for many weeks, uh, a year.
Chris Hunter: And essentially I got to where [00:08:00] I could even not even come into the office and the thing ran smoother than it than it did if I was there. So that was kind of being on being able to leave for months at a time. I was out one time three months with the back surgery and this was kind of the ha ha moment because I had a mentor tell me he said, Chris, you’ve built it, you built your team, you got the systems.
Chris Hunter: Let them do it and he said here’s your other thing when you go back Don’t you pick up one single task that you’ve let go of that they’re doing while you’re gone So when I came back three months later and the things still running very very well And I wasn’t I didn’t have to take up any more tasks or take back any tasks that I was doing That was a big aha.
Chris Hunter: Like, okay, this is what people talk about when they talk about freedom and building something that’s a repeatable and scalable and, and it never would have happened if I wouldn’t have started investing in those people and the, the systems and processes, uh, early on.
Wyatt Smith: How else did that, [00:09:00] that back injury change your mindset?
Chris Hunter: Well, also it, the back injury was one thing that, uh, You know, hey, you’re not as young as you used to be. You can’t do things like that. And two, it was also the realization that, wow, if you don’t have that next up or the bench or the leadership team, uh, there’s a lot of families dependent on that business to be successful, you know, and the levity of that, you know, was like, I can’t have this revolve around me.
Chris Hunter: And luckily so, because I went through another health challenge, uh, uh, after I even sold the business, but it kind of gives you the realization that don’t make it all about you because you’re replaceable, you know, I mean, you may not be there one day and the business is its own living, breathing entity.
Chris Hunter: It has to learn to survive and thrive. With or without you there. So that was, that was a pretty big [00:10:00] takeaway for that.
Wyatt Smith: I appreciate that. And it’s a good transition given your current role and, and helping serve people really well and realizing it’s not about you. So would you, would you share for folks a little bit about what a, a principal, uh, advisor does as ServiceTitan?
Chris Hunter: Yeah. So if you think about if you love the trades and, uh, and you’ve had a lot of success in the trades, but you don’t want to, You don’t want to just go out and start up another business. People ask me all the time. They’re like, are you, are you going to go do this again? I’m like, I don’t know if I want to, I right now I don’t have the stress.
Chris Hunter: I just get to, to learn, uh, about what’s going on in the industry. I get to learn about ServiceTitan. How did these two mesh, how can I go and help them do that? I don’t know if I want to do that, but, uh, but yeah, it is the perfect job for after running a contracting business. In fact. Um, we’ve got several other people just like myself that have joined service time that are there to help.
Chris Hunter: But you talk about a cool [00:11:00] job. The reason being a service time has freakishly smart people that are there. I’m talking next level. And I often say my greatest contribution to the whole thing is I just dumb the room way down. You know, I’m like, all right, yeah. What you’re talking about this data science, this analytic, all this stuff, this code that that’s awesome.
Chris Hunter: What’s it mean if I’m the contractor out there still in the truck holding the tablet, you know, what, what can we do to make this better? How do we communicate this better to the customers? So I get to help a lot with that. When they’re. When they’ve got ideas or they’re building products, I get to see it up front, give them insight on what, uh, the contractors are really doing and needing.
Chris Hunter: And then also, um, I get to study a lot about the industry and then feed, feed that data back to ServiceTitan about trends and, uh, kind of what that means as a contractor and how do we get in front of those things.
Wyatt Smith: That’s great. Well, it sounds like it’s a great role to serve people well, both internally on your team [00:12:00] at Titan and also externally with your customers.
Chris Hunter: It’s all about serving. And that’s what, uh, that’s what I love. I’ve also I mentioned earlier, Ben Stark. He’s a partner of mine in a way. We had a company even before I went to ServiceTitan called Go Time Success Group and Go Time is all about that as well. It’s a It’s a training company for the trades.
Chris Hunter: We’ve got a lab there in Hearst, Texas, where we develop technicians. They’ve got a big coaching team there where they help people with their businesses and their tech stack. So, uh, everything I do, I feel like it’s kind of revolved around You know, that servant, uh, servant mentality and, and man, it’s, it’s amazing what happens when you give more of something.
Chris Hunter: It tends to come back to you tenfold. So, I mean, if, if we serve people, then oh my gosh, we’ve received countless blessings back. It’s not just about the paycheck. I mean, it’s the relationships and everything that we’ve, we’ve got to encounter throughout our lives. We’re, we’re just really blessed people to do what we do.
Chris Hunter: That’s
Wyatt Smith: right. That’s great. I, I [00:13:00] love that your, your signature line still is it’s go time right now. I’m guessing that’s a tie back to the work with Ben.
Chris Hunter: Well, it is, and actually it was even before that, and it came about by complete accident. We were filming a commercial at my old company, Hunter Super Techs, and, and I love the team mentality and, And, uh, we would have these, these commercials and we were like a big football team, you know, cheering before you run out of the huddle.
Chris Hunter: And then at one point in time, after about 10 takes of this video, I scream out, it’s go time and everyone runs out the huddle and they’re, yeah, you know, that type of thing. And it’s stuck. And then I got thinking about it that really summed it up, you know, taking massive action. Uh, it’s go time. It’s kind of been my theme and how I found all of the success that I have, because, you know, a lot of people can want things, they can say they want to do it, but until you actually invest in learning something and then taking massive action on it, uh, it’s, it’s just not going to happen.
Chris Hunter: So [00:14:00] go time is kind of a rallying call for, for me and for those around me that. Let’s go. Let’s not just talk about it. Let’s not just sit around and. And think about it. Let’s take some action. Let’s make some stuff happen. And some mistakes happen along the way when you do that. But I’d rather, uh, I’d rather take the risk and fail then, uh, then sit back and never, never have taken the risk at all.
Wyatt Smith: I love it. Well, you take that mentality to all the service work you do. I’m curious when you’re talking to contractors right now. What’s the top pain point you’re hearing from, from folks across the industry?
Chris Hunter: Well, I mean, so right now specifically everyone is all about this economy. So, and let me tell you why, what, what really happened was it’s not that bad.
Chris Hunter: It’s really not that bad, but what happened during the COVID era is we got really spoiled and a lot of contractors got really, Hate to say fat and happy, uh, but that’s exactly what happened. So let me, let me just paint a picture for one, [00:15:00] their, the business was essential, so people had to have the service to the government came in, you know, with these big PPE loans and all these things that were forgivable even.
Chris Hunter: And, uh, so it kind of really stimulated, uh, uh, specifically an HVAC or a business in the trades, they, a lot of them got this nice check, they could invest in their business. And next, what happened was what no one could have predicted, everybody was at home. So they all decided it’s a great time to do projects.
Chris Hunter: And what, what essentially happened was we pulled forward work into that era, should have even been done maybe right now and in the next couple of years, but we pulled it forward and everyone saw growth rates. The ServiceTitan and did a, we We study the growth rates across the board of ServiceTitan customers, and the average growth rate was 26%.
Chris Hunter: So off the charts, uh, and and in [00:16:00] private equity. Also, this is right after I’d sold my company, you know, was in. They were buying all these companies at this 26%. growth rate and expecting that to continue. Well, last year, uh, things got back to normal and we dropped back down to about 6 percent growth rate.
Chris Hunter: Now, I think it’s up to about nine after our latest data, nine or 10 right there, which before the covid era, if you were saying, hey, I’m growing 10 percent year over year, man, that that’s a, that’s a solid year. You know, we’ll take it. Let’s go. So right now it’s really not that bad, but a lot of contractors are just Super hyper focused on it’s not what it was in turn.
Chris Hunter: This kind of relates back to you. I feel like The they’ve been a little hesitant to to keep investing in their core asset, which is their people So, you know i’m i’m even hearing and seeing a lot of people tighten up their purse strings, you know a little bit on uh, Wallet strings, whatever you call it, but on [00:17:00] developing their people, and this is not what they need to do right now.
Chris Hunter: The contractors that are still winning because we’re still seeing, we’re seeing, I think they called it a bimodal model. So we’re seeing some contractors are just killing it. Still, they’re just growing leaps and bounds. They’re the ones still investing in their people and in their technology, their advertising and all this stuff.
Chris Hunter: Then we’re seeing another group that is struggling, man, they’re down. They’re saying call volumes off. They can’t understand it. But then when you dig in and talk to him, like, okay, but what are we doing to take some action on this? You know, are you, are you still investing in your people? Are you still training?
Chris Hunter: Are you still, uh, really focusing in on how you’re maximizing your software to gain all these optimizations? And oftentimes they’re not. And, uh, so that’s why we’re still seeing the growth rate kind of right in the middle, but we do see the extremes. I’m trying to encourage contractors. Let’s stay on the upside.
Chris Hunter: Let’s stay on that, uh, that high mode that that’s out there and, uh, and [00:18:00] really take this thing by control. But that’s the biggest thing. They’re all kind of worried about the economy, but I feel like it’s getting back to, uh, perceived normal per se.
Wyatt Smith: Yeah, well, I really thought you mentioned that there was a podcast you did on the ServiceTitan Tools of the Trade, um, podcast said a couple of weeks ago, it was focused on how to keep profits high when customer spending is low.
Wyatt Smith: So the dynamic you just alluded to, and your, your colleague, Deanna Kawasaki mentioned that bimodal distribution, where you have some contractors who are finding success, despite the headwinds, because they’re making really thoughtful investments operationally. And how they work and there’s other folks that are on the left side of that, of that, of that bar that are struggling.
Wyatt Smith: And so I thought that could be a cool place to dig in. And one thing that we’re focused on is around how competitions and other types of technician focused engagements can help drive more revenue. Higher close rates, [00:19:00] higher average tickets. I’d love to learn, what are some ways you’ve seen competitions help service contractors grow productivity and help them win getting to that right side of the tail?
Chris Hunter: Well, the competition thing is, is interesting, man. And, uh, because it wasn’t that long ago and, and if anyone’s, uh, been in the trades for maybe over 10 years, they’ll remember this. Um, it wasn’t that long ago that, um, a technician, if they went to work at a place. Uh, the employer essentially had the upper hand.
Chris Hunter: I’m gonna say the upper hand just that they here’s what the pay is. Here’s your hours. We’re gonna work lots of overtime. We’re gonna, you know, it was all about the the employer. I hate to say that. Uh, and the technician didn’t have a lot of options fast forward till today or the last several years. It’s a different world man.
Chris Hunter: We got a we got a different workforce Uh, not saying they’re better or worse. In fact, they’re probably better, but we’ve got to [00:20:00] learn how to adapt to their style and their needs and their wants to let them thrive. But it’s no longer this command and control type of scenario, you know, and because they honestly, they could leave your shop today and go to the next door shop and have a job and probably make more money, you know?
Chris Hunter: So it’s gotta be something more to keep them engaged. This is where I love the, the competitions or, uh, Uh, the incentivization or really just learning what’s most important to that team member and learning how your job is the leaders that connect the dots of what’s most important to them and your company goals and how you can make these two match, then that’s the sweet spot.
Chris Hunter: That’s what I think is going to keep them engaged. And for a lot of people, the competition is it. I mean, you heard, you’ve heard me say it. Uh, Um, I say it all the time, but you know what gets measured and recognized gets repeated and improved. So, you know, if we’re finding a way to measure what’s [00:21:00] most important to the company, we’re recognizing that in the employee that achieves that, uh, and showing them how that can help them accomplish their goal.
Chris Hunter: then man, guess what? It’s like magic. They’re going to repeat it and they’re going to keep improving it. You know, so, uh, competitions are a great way to do that. I do think competitions to tend to tend to drive the a player. So if you think about a team full of players, You know, we want as many A’s and B’s as we can.
Chris Hunter: Yeah, we’ve got some C’s and hopefully if you got any D’s or F’s, you’ve, you’ve promoted them to go work for your, your competition. But, uh, but if not, uh, we got to figure out you can’t take a highly driven winning person and not give them some sort of challenge. They’re, they’re gonna burn out, they’re gonna get flat, then they’re gonna go look for another new opportunity.
Chris Hunter: Um, I’ve even read, done a lot of studies on this where there’s a big S curve, you know, and, and, and the op of the curve is when [00:22:00] they are at their peak performance, they’re, they’re doing great for the company, but if you don’t re engage them, they will slowly fall off. And this is why a lot of people, they, they see that, man, that guy used to be my top performer, but you know what here lately, he’s, he just doing okay.
Chris Hunter: And he’s, he’s feeling more entitled. He’s asking for more things and stuff, but he’s not performing like he used to. Well, they probably didn’t re engage them in any type of challenge and stuff like that. And I, I went to a seminar one time and it had the, uh, it had the captain of, I forget which ship. It was like a naval ship or whatever, but he took the worst ship and he turned it into the best ship.
Chris Hunter: And then, it was an amazing turnaround story. But then after two years, they switched him out. Uh, and I was like, why would anybody do that? Why, why does the military switch people out after a couple years of, of doing that? And then it, uh, this study came up and he even mentioned it as well. He’s like, Winners gotta [00:23:00] gotta keep being challenged, you know, and if they’ve got something, they’ve got it established, they got it running, it’s time for them to go on to the next challenge.
Chris Hunter: They can do it again. So the military knew something they were. That’s why they changed those people out. They wanted to keep those top performers engaged and keep things fresh. So hopefully I know your program does a great job of Yeah,
Wyatt Smith: no, I love that you mentioned the naval story to the thing that was, and I think if I recall the one you’re talking about, there was this captain, um, Michael Abershoff and he took command of this.
Wyatt Smith: Yep. It took command of one of these destroyers that was to your point, one of the worst performing ships. And when he got there, the culture was so weak. It was a situation where people were kind of sullen. They’re kind of resentful, ready to get out of the Navy. Yeah. By the time he left in three years, it was the highest performing ship.
Wyatt Smith: Retention was off the charts. He did the whole thing without changing the team. So it wasn’t as though he was able to fire some [00:24:00] folks and hire new ones. And so what’s interesting with that story is it’s about changing culture through raising expectations and then delivering for people so that that changes, and I, I UpSmith around this topic.
Wyatt Smith: I, I’d love to share with our listeners something you share with me, which is what you’re seeing in the data. Around best practices, that if you can reward people for performing those best practices in the right way, the right time, every time, how much it can change performance. What two that you’ve mentioned to me before that I think really resonate with our listeners.
Wyatt Smith: One would be around multiple options for service to a homeowner and the second being around the power of financing. Yes. So to the extent you’re open, I would love to learn from your experience, how you see that playing out.
Chris Hunter: Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s the, the multiple options is the simplest. yet most overlooked thing that everyone does.
Chris Hunter: So I mean, think about home, especially [00:25:00] in a time where the economy may be like it is right now. I mean, there’s there’s still a vast array of people that are out there that have different buying levels and needs. And and if you’re not given a multiple options, you’re essentially choosing, uh, for them. And think about a technician.
Chris Hunter: A lot of times they’re They’re starting out. Maybe they don’t have a lot of money. So they’re thinking through their own lens, you know, like, Oh man, I don’t want to offer that thing. It’s way too much money. No one would pay that much for that biggest service. It’s not true. Someone else may have already been through, uh, you know, a life cycle.
Chris Hunter: And now they have a different lens they’re looking through and they just want something that’s the best or it’s the quietest or, uh, you know, that’s got the best warranty, whatever it may be. So Just the multiple options thing in your data actually was a huge eye opener even to me on the reinforcing that because we, we know that at ServiceTitan, it’s why we build so many integrated tools to help them easily build multiple options, how to present them, uh, and then to follow up with [00:26:00] that, how to even do that with the financing, even multiple options on the financing.
Chris Hunter: But whenever you show me your data about the results and just specific individuals that just began to give more options and we’re simply, uh, Uh, rewarded on that, recognized and rewarded on it. It was pretty crazy.
Wyatt Smith: Yeah. Well, I love your line about what gets recognized, gets repeated. So, uh, the data that we’ve seen working with contractors is that if you can message people every time they deliver three or more options for service to one of their customers, the rate at which they do that more than doubles in as little as two weeks, you think about that, you’re like, wow, more than doubles.
Wyatt Smith: How’s that possible? And it really drives into some of the things you mentioned. A lot of times. Tenacious will be in their heads and they’ll think if I were in this person’s shoes, it wouldn’t make sense for me. So who am I to propose something different to them and helping them take a step back and understand this is what’s going to get the best outcome.
Wyatt Smith: And the most [00:27:00] agency for the customer is a really powerful thing.
Chris Hunter: That’s it. And you know, there’s one other reason I love the multiple options, uh, part of recognizing that one. So I’ve made this mistake as a contractor. Sometimes I have recognized. Not necessarily the wrong thing, but a metric that I thought was going to really drive something and consequently it drove the opposite as well.
Chris Hunter: So, for example, let’s say that in my service department, I was really concentrated on average ticket. It’s a great KPI to monitor and even to recognize, but I didn’t have anything else with that. So what happened was all of a sudden, man, our average ticket started going through the roof. And but I was looking at my total revenue, the profitability, some things were not quite adding up here.
Chris Hunter: And I’m like, what’s going on? Well, our technician turnovers, our sales for new system replacements started going down. So I’m like, Holy smoke. Yep. I’m, I’m [00:28:00] recognizing they’re, they’re repeating it and they’re getting better at it, but I’ve, I’ve kind of shot myself in the foot, but the reason why I love the multiple options and a lot of best practice companies do this is because You know, we as a company, I love the philosophy of we can fix anything.
Chris Hunter: I mean, we’re, we, it may not be cost effective, but guess what? I’m going to give you an option to at least repair anything. And then I’m also going to give you an option for a complete replacement, no matter what. So if I’m presenting options. You know not knowing what the homeowner may or may not want to do and i’m going to make it easy for them to Choose i’m gonna make it easy for them to buy it with financing or whatever it may be And I just simply give the options of repair to replace Man, great things are going to happen so I love focusing on that multiple options because now We’re not going to pigeonhole ourself into someone’s just trying to sell them new equipment or oh, they’re just trying to raise their average ticket.
Chris Hunter: No, we’re just serving. And if I’m a technician, you can’t tell me if you’re a technician that goes into a 25 year old house, all [00:29:00] right, you cannot be a great technician. If you can’t go in there and find ways to help keep that customer comfortable, save them money or keep their family safe. If you’re a great technician.
Chris Hunter: You go into that house, you can find multiple ways to do it. Then their job to me is not to sell them anything. It’s just to make the options. Here’s what I found. I’m a really good technician. Well, I found some ways I can save you some money. I can make you more comfortable. I can keep your family safe.
Chris Hunter: Here’s some options of what we can do and then let them, let them choose. I guarantee a great things happen in your, your data proves that. And so does ServiceTitan’s.
Wyatt Smith: I love that so much, Chris, we’re thrilled to be partnered with ServiceTitan to have joined the technology partner network and to be able to find mutual customers, both through your platform and then us going directly to folks.
Wyatt Smith: I think one of the really cool parts about that partnership, too, is the data that’s being generated through ServiceTitan becomes a really great source of truth. For measuring what happened [00:30:00] and then building a reward system to make more of it happen or a competition to get people excited about a growth goal.
Wyatt Smith: So we’re awfully excited to continue building with your team and to really dig in a lot of those best practices that you guys identify.
Chris Hunter: Well, man, looking at it’s really cool what you do with the data too, because I mean, honestly, so a lot of times people. have a complaint. I mean, this data, you know, there’s too much of it or it’s not accurate.
Chris Hunter: It’s not the case that it’s sometimes trash in trash out, you know, so they got to have their workflows correct to actually know how to how to get this the data in there correctly. But then after that, what are you gonna do with it? Sometimes they get data overload. So what I loved about how what your program did, how easy it made it was okay.
Chris Hunter: You don’t have to do anything else with the data. We’re going to get it. And then we’re going to make it really easy to digest and to take some action on, uh, to help your team out. So well done, buddy. Well done.
Wyatt Smith: Well, I’m going to work to do a lot more work to do, but I think your point there about serving [00:31:00] people well, by designing the product to be intuitive, super easy to use, not requiring any workflow.
Wyatt Smith: Those are really important design principles to make it sing.
Chris Hunter: That’s it, man. That’s it. The people I, we’re a tick tock society today. I hate to say it, but we’re, uh, we’re a, uh, a very short attention span. So if anything requires, uh, too much, you know, study implementation, it’s where we see even challenges and ServiceTitan, you know, with customers onboarding it, you know, it takes some work to implement a whole software system, but.
Chris Hunter: So you’re a program that makes it, uh, you don’t even have to think about it. We got it. I love that because that that’s essentially what I think most contractors are looking for.
Wyatt Smith: We want to serve them super well. Um, so whenever we have a guest on the program here, we want to learn from them about sort of things that they’ve read that have led them to change their behavior in some way, because we’re all about continuous improvement and, and becoming more productive.
Wyatt Smith: We’d love to learn from you either [00:32:00] a book you read, um, an idea that you encountered, something that led you to really reconsider a way you were making choices. And you’ve already mentioned a couple, even on the story about your career. Um, I love the John Maxwell’s Laws and Leadership, but curious what else did you add to that list?
Chris Hunter: Yeah, John, John Maxwell. The 21 laws of leadership is definitely, I think, a, uh, a must read for anybody that’s a leader of a company. I mean, for me personally, uh, as a man of faith, the Bible was obviously full of instructions. Whether you’re a person of faith or not, there’s just a lot of dang good advice in there.
Chris Hunter: You know what I mean? So that was a game changer. Um, several. In fact, let me tell you what I did one time. I have so many favorites. But I quit watching TV during a span of several, several years. I’ll watch a little bit now, but not much, but quit watching TV. And I just started reading books that were about things that I wanted to get better at.
Chris Hunter: Whether it was business, whether it was family, uh, [00:33:00] whatever it was, that’s what I would do. I would try to learn and study. Um, so, even took a lot of that advice and the things that we learned, my, my partner, Ben Stark and Dave Rothacker and we wrote a book, it’s called It’s Go Time. So I’d also shameless plug, encourage anyone to check that out as well because it just shares out all of the lessons we learned.
Chris Hunter: And the point of the whole thing for this was kind of the shortcut for me was if if you want to get to a certain point, point A to point B, the fastest way to do that is a straight line. And you can do that if you will simply find someone that’s already at point B and learn what they know, you know, the good, the bad.
Chris Hunter: So that way you don’t have to repeat it. You don’t have to take two steps forward and three steps back. You know, you can just follow that path straight. So that’s what Ben and I did. And Dave Rothacker helped us write it. And we did a great job, I think, of capturing those lessons learned. Uh, some of the pain points, especially, it’s not just all [00:34:00] beat your chest, brag here, look how awesome we were.
Chris Hunter: No, it was, it was what it was like to be in the trenches in the weeds and to learn lessons from people and apply them. And uh, and so I, I think, uh, it’d be a great tool for anybody as well, looking to check something out.
Wyatt Smith: That’s great. We’ll put, we’ll put the link there to It’s Go Time your book with, with Ben.
Wyatt Smith: And that’s, that’s really cool. Uh, when I post that question, I don’t always expect someone to have their own one to reference, but that’s, that’s really fun. Uh, I got to ask the follow up question. So writing a book, that’s a process. Like, what did you find? How did, what was your process you use? What, what helped you get your ideas out there?
Wyatt Smith: Any reflections you have on, on that experience?
Chris Hunter: Yeah, so Ben Stark. Ben Stark is, uh, he’s a member of the Contracting Business Hall of Fame, HVAC Hall of Fame, serial entrepreneur, and we’re building so many companies. So he called me and he’s like, Chris, we need to write a book. I’m like, great idea. He said, all right, you start, I start, we’ll combine it [00:35:00] together.
Chris Hunter: So about three months later, we got together and I’m like, what do you got, Ben? And he didn’t have much. I didn’t have anything. I’m like, this is a lot harder than we ever even dreamed, isn’t it? And he’s like, yeah. And luckily we had another friend of ours. It’s now business partner of ours named Dave Rothacker.
Chris Hunter: Dave was just super gifted at writing. And so for a period of over a year, Ben and I would have a regular call with Dave and we just talk through everything that’s in the book. We talked about our journeys from start to finish. Uh, each section of the business, you know, whether it was marketing, culture, people, Uh, you know, HR, adding companies, uh, selling companies, call center, you name it.
Chris Hunter: We took every topic and Ben and I just discussed and shared stories and lessons learned along the way. Dave captured it, was able to help us put it down on on paper. So that was a man and true blessing and also a lesson learned of [00:36:00] the lid. My lid was I wasn’t going to be a great writer by myself. I needed some, some help.
Chris Hunter: So we invested in some people to bring in, to help make that happen.
Wyatt Smith: That’s great. Well, I’m excited to dig into it myself and get some lessons there.
Wyatt Smith: I’m curious
Wyatt Smith: whether,
Wyatt Smith: go ahead.
Chris Hunter: I was just going to say, as a contractor too, we put lots of pictures in there. Uh, because I, I know what it’s like to that period
Chris Hunter: I went of reading all the time. Um, You know, it’s that attention span. It’s tough. So we put a lot of pictures and a lot of illustrations in there, uh, for contractors as well.
Wyatt Smith: Awesome. Curious about other productivity hacks you have, things you do on a day to day basis to be able to perform.
Chris Hunter: Yeah, well, the biggest thing any, I mean, this isn’t just for me.
Chris Hunter: This is for you. This is for anybody in business. This is even for a, uh, for down to the technician level, but we, we go through an annual planning process every year and then in an annual planning process, [00:37:00] specifically as a company business owner, we’re, we’re going to take and analyze everything that we did last year, what we want to accomplish this year, get really solid and clear about what our goals are, and then we’re going to reverse engineer.
Chris Hunter: What it takes to get that. So let’s say that I wanted to become a 10 million dollar plumbing company, whatever, you name it. Well, all right, here’s the top line number. What does that mean? How many calls do we need? You know, what’s our closing percentage going to be on those calls? Uh, what, what does that mean for average ticket?
Chris Hunter: How many technicians are we going to have to have? And then we can reverse engineer this thing out. So we know every month, a very clear. Uh, path forward to, to hit and achieve these goals. So I love the annual planning, uh, and as much as anything, I think it’s the easiest, most underlooked thing that one can do, and it’s just set setting up a simple reverse engineer budget.
Chris Hunter: But you can also do this with your, uh, with your personal life or whatever. It’s just [00:38:00] getting, taking some time thinking about, you know, your, your mission, your vision, your core values, even as a. As a person or a family, a father, a husband, you know, what, what are we trying to do here? What’s the, what’s the goal?
Chris Hunter: What are we trying to accomplish? And how can we reverse engineer to make that look successful? And then we talked about a little bit earlier, but it’s taking massive action. Once you got the plan, action is easy to take. But if you know the steps and you know what’s gonna happen next, it’s just go time, man.
Chris Hunter: You can just go and you don’t have to have everybody, you know, wondering what’s next. Can I do it? Can I not? We’re all moving in the same direction and it’s kind of amazing when, when big Mo gets moving momentum,
Wyatt Smith: it’s go time. I love it. Uh, any podcast recs or newsletters that you consume regularly that you say other people should check out?
Chris Hunter: Yeah. So, I mean, obviously the Tools of the Trades podcast, I’m partial to just cause I know, uh, know them well at ServiceTitan, but my personal favorite [00:39:00] is the Craig Groeschel Leadership podcast. The guys. Man, he’s chocked so full of wisdom and he breaks it down into very actionable, uh, steps, downloads a leader guide with it.
Chris Hunter: That’s, uh, and it’s nice and short and sweet, but that’s kind of my, my definite go to, uh, also like the Rhino podcast just cause it’s got so many industry, uh, great people on there. And I love learning from what everybody’s doing as well, but so that, that’s some pretty good ones.
Wyatt Smith: Awesome. We’ll check out both.
Wyatt Smith: Uh, and then, uh, close things out ways that our listeners can find you online or support you with different projects you have going on right now. What would be the best way for them to check you out?
Chris Hunter: Yeah. So the easiest, easiest thing is, I mean, with ServiceTitan. So I wear multiple hats, right? So sometimes I confuse people, but ServiceTitan is, is easy.
Chris Hunter: If you go online and you accidentally type anything, ServiceTitan is going to come up or you’re going to see an ad. If you see this thing, next thing I know you’re going to be targeted with an ad. I guarantee it. [00:40:00] But, uh, they’re, they’re just really, really good. So, but if you’d love to even get in touch with me personally, you know, Uh, email is, is so easy.
Chris Hunter: It’s just chunter@servicetitan.com. I’d love to connect with you and go from there. But then also, uh, at gotimesuccessgroup.com. Um, I’ve got some stuff on there and we got a, got a full team there that loves helping the trades and the industry. So love to connect with anybody, uh, through that as well.
Wyatt Smith: Great.
Chris Hunter: And if you love fish, you love fishing. You can just look at my personal Facebook page. Uh, or my TikTok, because, uh, I do love some fishing and, and the trades have blessed me and my wife tremendously. Now we get to spend a whole lot of time out on the water, uh, catching fish.
Wyatt Smith: I love it. It’s like Bill Dance on the, on the podcast.
Wyatt Smith: That’s good. Well, Chris, you’re generous to be with us. I grateful for your friendship and for the chance to collaborate together to serve people. Uh, thanks for all the lessons you shared today, and we’re excited to keep those going and share them with more people.
Chris Hunter: Man, you keep [00:41:00] up the good work, buddy. I love seeing what you’re doing, and thank you so much for letting me to, to come on and play a little small part in this.
Wyatt Smith: Absolutely. We’ll catch you next time on Untapped
Wyatt Smith: with UpSmith. Take care.
